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Post by aliceapproved on Aug 17, 2012 20:49:39 GMT -5
Hey, so I was on the road for a little over two hours (HA. Ha, I say as I remember I will be going on a road trip that's over 7 hours long in a few weeks. Ha.), so I'm a little frazzled, but I wanted to drop some thoughts and notes and feels from this section and have even more chats with you awesome people. :> Also, in the mood to use gifs, so I hope people don't mind that.Point One: Ducks are Awesome :VMoving on. I keep trying to find more information about Principalities, since it's stated that Aziraphale is technically a Principality, but I never really found that much about them, so I still don't think I fully understand what this angel rank means. I recall that is has something to do with love or something? Is that even right? I'm not sure, so clarification would be great if anyone knows. Next: I will forever love the interaction between Crowley and Aziraphale. The scene at the duck pond where Crowley is trying to convince Aziraphale that the end of the world would make them both miserable and they should try to do something to prevent it from happening is a great first glimpse of how their friendship has progressed over the years. Crowley knows Azi's weak spots. He knows what the angel dislikes (eternity with Elgar) and he knows he likes (eggs, bookshops, antiques, etc). I love picturing that scene and as Crowley lists off a few of Azi's favorite things, the angel sort of cringes in pain slightly at the thought of those things not existing anymore. Oh, goodness, mental image of happy Aziraphale walking into a cute coffee or dessert shop and the shop owners greet him happily and Azi waves back hello. My heart. Ow. It's melting. Anyway, after knowing someone for roughly around 6,000 years, you should no a thing or two about each other. We see Aziraphale trying to resist, since he's still in "I'm the better one, I should follow orders like a good angel would" but it's really nice and interesting to see him have this sort of inner struggle with himself since he's not denying that Crowley's right. Oh, and Azi makes a traffic warden's notebook spontaneously combust. How sweet. XD Also, it's in this part of the reread where we get an official introduction of Aziraphale. Here's a summary: BOOKS. I like to note that Aziraphale would go "weak in the knees at the thought of actually getting his exquisitely manicured hands on one."Total fanboy, much, and manicured hands. Azi, you're too precious. Next, the drunk scene. That should probably be a thread on its own, because who could forget this part? The whole time I'm just: It's a wonderful read. Following that we get the Horsemen which is being discussed on another thread. I'll just say that my first time reading this I had no idea why these people were being mentioned and I was confused on how they would fit the story. Basically it was just: But now rereading it again, I'm making all the connections and it's awesome. (I think I like Famine the most) Crowley and Aziraphale "raising" Warlock is on another thread, too, so I'll just skip to the end where the demon and angel have met up in the British Museum cafeteria to discuss Warlock. I love how Crowley's worry over Warlock being "normal" is like how a football fan dad is worried that his son is not into sports. (This makes Azi the mom lol) Aziraphale is beaming, saying it's his "good influence" that has helped the boy to be fairly neutral. I feel like Aziraphale has a need to boast a little that he's done "good" to help comfort himself that he is a "good" angel and he's not doing "bad." I feel that this ties into his fear of falling or doing something wrong that I discussed earlier this week. I think it's a nice small detail that I'm not sure if the writers intended that or not, but I like to think so. Lastly, pardon my long list of feels, but I have another cute mental image of Aziraphale happily eating his deviled egg, drinking his coffee, and helps himself to a slice of Crowley's angel cake. (Deviled egg and angel cake, I like that) He loves to read and eat lovely delicate things like the adorable dork that he is. I have this little headcanon that when Azi was a guard in Eden, he was fairly slim, maybe borderline twig even, though that's probably a bit much. As time went on, more foods and recipes were evolving and Aziraphale gradually put on a little more weight from all the glorious food that was being created. He is self-indulgent after all (not as much as Crowley, but there's no denying that he is, just indulgent in different things). I don't picture him obese or terribly fat, but I do imagine him a little plump or chubby. Once again, I love Crowley and Aziraphale!
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lacrypte
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Post by lacrypte on Aug 17, 2012 21:11:10 GMT -5
Principalities are pretty easy to explain! I think they confused with another ...uhh..they get confused with some other thing that I don't remember. (I think it was those babies with the wings. I think that's the wrong thing though.) I'm not sure how much you found out about them but their job is to basically bring blessings to the material world and see over groups of people. They're..like guardians and educators. They inspire art, science, those sort of things. Apparently they work together with the Powers.
I love Crowley again in this part of the book, and I feel bad for Aziraphale because he can't think of one good thing to prove Crowley's point wrong. It really shows that Crowleys rubbing off on him when he has that little inner battle. He want's to follow the plan but he himself knows it isn't the best thing to do.
-Oh that is a cute mental image. ;v ;
That scene with the traffic warden KILLS me every time, because both of them are just like 'We thought you invited that.' Which is really amusing seeing as not many things make Heaven and Hell blame each other. So to have something as simple as a traffic warden be such a pain in the ass for both of them kills me.
GAHA. The drunk scene. Ohhh the drunk scene.
I had the same reaction with the others. I sort of skimmed their parts but went back later to re-read them.
The food thing with Aziraphale actually makes me really happy. I was glad to not see your typical godly beautiful creature from the heavens that has a perfect...everything. I was very pleased that he had those human traits of loving food and that bit of pudge to him that makes me go 'Aww cutiiee!'. For being one who thwarts evil, if there was one thing to tempt Aziraphale it certainly would be his books and food.
I have all the feels for these two. It was after this point in the book where I wondered were they would come back in, because I would hear so much of them in the tags and then got so little of them later in the book because they brought out Newt and the Horses and so on.
I would also have more to say but my hands hurt /sob
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Post by aliceapproved on Aug 17, 2012 21:41:23 GMT -5
I think that's one of the things that tears me about this book. I was built up to care about Aziraphale and Crowley so much in the beginning, I was expecting a lot more.
However, there's so little of them in the middle (they're barely there) and only come back towards the end. I like some of the other characters, but I was wishing for more Aziraphale and Crowley scenes.
It's funny because the Good Omens tag is so full of those two anyway, it does give off the wrong impression that the book is just about them.
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lacrypte
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Post by lacrypte on Aug 17, 2012 21:55:03 GMT -5
I think that's why when I started to read the book I was slightly dissapointed taht there was so little Crowley and Aziraphale. Because I expected more, but even though that makes me sad that there was so little of them, I think the fandom makes up for it. There are a lot of head canons that everyone seems to have. So while I'm sad I got so built up to more of them I'm glad the fandom is there now that I've read it.
Though I also love the other characters so much. The book should of been a bit longer!
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Post by aliceapproved on Aug 17, 2012 22:06:51 GMT -5
Agreed! I was disappointed by the lack of Azi and Crowley, too, but the fandom really does make up for it.
And yeah, it would have been nice to have the book longer. We could have gotten more character depth or more Aziraphale and Crowley.
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lacrypte
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Post by lacrypte on Aug 17, 2012 22:44:36 GMT -5
Now that I have tea out of my hands I can probably respond to this--.
I'm really curious of the authors rough draft though. I wonder if there was more of Crowley and Aziraphale in there. After all they did pass ideas back and forth. I know a friend of mine and I tend to plot out loud with what could happen between characters, and then our RP sort of follows those ideas. Though sometimes the RP dosent include everything we talk about because it's not important. So I wonder what was in their rough draft of it all or what they talked about.
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Post by aliceapproved on Aug 17, 2012 22:49:12 GMT -5
That's really interesting to think about.
Perhaps there's a bunch of Crowley and Aziraphale deleted scenes!
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lacrypte
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Post by lacrypte on Aug 17, 2012 22:54:48 GMT -5
I would think so! There are probably a lot of tidbits of random information or random scenes that never actually got published. I know reading their interview that they mentioned the rough draft and when people asked about the sequel they just said if it comes it comes. Personally if they just published the rough draft I would be pleased with that. I wouldn't mind buying it.
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Post by aliceapproved on Aug 17, 2012 23:01:47 GMT -5
Same here. :>
Also, I'm pretty happy with Good Omens standing on its own. I don't think it really needs a sequel.
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lacrypte
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Post by lacrypte on Aug 17, 2012 23:06:25 GMT -5
I agree! I am happy with Food Omens as it stands. If they ever did do a sequel I would be curious how they would even do one and what would be the plot for that. Though, it just feels all good and wrapped up. It's hard to beat the apocalypse after all as a theme.
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Post by kajainthesky on Aug 18, 2012 4:11:40 GMT -5
I think I agree with everything you guys have said, but I have this fear that if they had too much Azi and Crowl', it would... well, I'm basically afraid of growing bored with the banter? Now I don't think that would happen but adding, say, a lot of scenes not that relevant to the plot just because (honestly how much did they do other than raising Warlock? OK, a bit but still) , well I wouldn't like that.
Then again, it could have been amazing and glorious and amazing, so who am I to speak xD.
(Trivia, Crowley mentions gravlax with dill sauce which is Swedish and it made me squeal. is it called the same thing in england/other english speaking countries?)
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Post by sepherene on Aug 18, 2012 11:21:31 GMT -5
I'm basically an angel whore. I know tons about all the different levels and lore. Crypte, I think you're thinking of cherubim when you' mention the ones mistaken for fat babies. Aziraphale used to be a Cherubim when he was the Guardian of the Eastern Gate (24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.) But he basically got demoted LOL I partly wonder what lead him from being the angel of the Eastern Gate to the angel who read books in his dusty old shop and has a sweet tooth. I think it's briefly mentioned in the book but I don't remember where. It's actually funny because according to lore Principalities are hostile to God (maybe this relates to why Aziraphale becomes hesitant of the Plan too), but I think if anything he's a bit of a combo of being a Principality and Angel (which is actually a completely separate choir despite all of the choirs being angels technically). Either way he's in the group of angels which are related to mankind and this makes them to be seen by Heaven as less than divine. Even among his own ranks, Aziraphale is discriminated against. I kind of wonder if this is why he feels, for a time, that he needs to exalt that he's better that Crowley? As a way to prove his own worth of divinity to himself?
My favorite part about Crowley knowing all of Aziraohale's weak spots is that EVEN AFTER he literally tempts him into agreeing to help him, Aziraphale says, "Don't you tempt me" which is hilarious because he already did. Way to go Aziraphale you baby face, trying to make yourself feel better by claiming all those things had nothing to do with your decision.
I literally laughed out loud when he burned up the traffic warden's book. He's all sheepish about it too like "Oh nonono I only did it because they're bad!" Oh stop it you.
The first time I read the book I was really confused about all the characters all over the place and I didn't even have any previous notion that A&C were fandom favorites. But re-reading it again its making more sense to me why and I love it. I do agree that there is a good balance of A&C through out the book but it would have been really cool to learn more about them. I had no bias the first time I read it but I felt like A&C's parts just flowed a lot better and were easier and more fun to read than say the horsemen (though when the horse men are together on the bikes, I love that, also the whole last bit of the book when all the shit is going down is good). I always found The Them really hard to get through and I'm not sure why. Anathema and Newt were probably my second easiest parts to read.
I would be interested to see how they do a sequel if they ever felt like it. I think it would be interesting BECAUSE Good Omens was written before either of them were very popular authors. It would be really cool just to see what more they could do with the characters with all the experience they now have under their belt.
kaja, I'm American and I had noooo idea what gravlax with dill sauce was. I'd never heard of it before I read this book and I had to look it up (it seems really interesting though haha I wouldn't mind trying it, but I've never ever seen it on a menu, and I imagine it would probably only be in a fancy expensive restaurant here. probably because most people here will cringe if you mention eating raw fish)
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Post by kajainthesky on Aug 18, 2012 12:31:24 GMT -5
I really do need to catch up on my angel lore, because daym. The feeling I get from the divine side, which might be partly because of a huge amount of roleplaying, is the sense of being to full of themself, to busy being holy that they actually forget why they are supposed to be good in the first place. And I guess that's what makes Aziraphale different, right? He wants to be holy really bad, he is holy after all, but he's also genuinely good, even if it's more in the human-free-will way than the holy-angel way. And really, I need to read up on my angel lore because angels being racist towards each other sounds... interesting.
The tempting thing, it's all reasurrance for himself, right? He just really wants do things because he .. wants to, not because Crowley tempted him. "I agree to do this with you, but because it's my choice not your manipulation." I guess it's a reasonable way to think/feel xD.
Would good omens be remotely the same now, though? have the same feeling, now that they both are such established authors? I doubt either would let egos clash so that wouldn't be a problem, but it'd be really interesting to see how a sequel would be different due to how they both changed as authors.
It's not RAW. It's, er, Gravad? The translator says "pickle raw" so I guess it's a bit raw but... I mean... Sushi is raw fish? Although Gravlax and Dillsauce aint that tasty if you ask me. (this is when the swedish gods smite me)
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Post by aliceapproved on Aug 18, 2012 12:55:13 GMT -5
Oh, wow, thanks for all the info on angels. That's really cool. (Also, Crypte, I forgot to thank you for your angel info. Thank you so much! Sorry for being late!) Now that you've described it, I think that makes a lot of sense on why Aziraphale acts the way he does. He's essentially an outcast himself in his own "side" because his kind is looked down upon by other angels, just as Crowley is the outcast among demons. Azi's trying to prove to himself as well as to the other angels that he is good, he is "better" than this demon. I think that's a really good explanation as to why Aziraphale acts like he's "better" than Crowley because he's a demon. In his mindset, to be a more divine angel, he has to be better and higher ("holier") than demons, so he's reluctant to see himself as equal as Crowley despite the demon being right about a lot of things. Azi's full of so many insecurities because he's trying to get himself to fit in with other angels when he has more in common with Crowley because they're both outcasts. He's not comfortable with accepting the fact that he is different from the other angels, so he's trying to stick with stuffy angel ways to fit the part, but we all know how long that lasts. I feel bad for him because he was probably teased and made fun of by the other angels who were "higher" ranked and looked down on him. Azi just wants acceptance and he's afraid of equating himself with Crowley who fully accepts him as he is. Poor dear. I think that makes his emotional arc really interesting. Also, I suppose "losing" the flaming sword could result in being demoted. XD I also agree that the A&C parts were the easiest parts and the most fun for me to read. I do enjoy Anathema and Newt and the others, but The Them is the hardest part for me, though. I know it's a little weird coming from me, but I'm really not a big fan of children. There are a few exceptions where I do enjoy child characters, but I found Them to be boring, for me at least. I was just more interested in the other characters, but I understand why They had to be mentioned because heck, the Antichrist is pretty important. XD I do love Dog, though, but his part is so small (another character that was built up to me) that I suppose it doesn't really count. That's my biggest struggle with the book. (But sushi is delicious! :U)
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lacrypte
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Post by lacrypte on Aug 18, 2012 13:29:18 GMT -5
Ah yes! That was who I was thinking about. Names always defy me when it comes to Demon and Angel lore sometimes.
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